While national exposure seems like a surefire recipe for chart domination, Cartel’s second release was met with lukewarm reviews and almost no label support. The quintet eventually left Epic for mega-indie label Wind-Up and released 2009’s Cycles, a more cohesive and well-received record that still largely fell to the wayside due to internal label complications.
When higher-ups seemed to be doing more harm than good, Cartel decided to say “fuck it” early this year and venture out as an independent band. The result? A fantastic, completely self-produced EP titled In Stereo, and a newfound sense of creative freedom that comes with snapping out of the ball-and-chain system that was steadily tugging at their feet for years. We spoke with frontman Will Pugh (far right) about the band’s chaotic journey, and how it’s fueling their present and future.
You just put out the In Stereo EP. How has the reaction been?
It’s been great man, we’re really excited. After all the effort we put into it, the one unknown was how people were going to react, especially since we did it so differently. It’s really cool that people have accepted it for what it is.
How does putting out a record on your own compare to putting one out on a label?
To say it’s infinitely more stress-free is an understatement. We had good experiences with labels, but most of what we noticed that we haven’t loved was the post-release stuff. The various things that go on with that, like picking a single, and busting down radio station doors and playing acoustic for people who don’t care. It’s the formulaic things in the industry that were excited to not be a part of. There’s no A&R, just us and management pounding it back and forth and getting the best product we could make. That was a victory, not dealing with some other guy who doesn’t know who we are. Not having to listen to what he has to say about music as far as the creation. When you talk to someone who’s basically a listener and having him tell you to change things, you want to ask “Your expertise comes from where?” (laughs). It’s great to know your record came out how you intended.
How was recording In Stereo different from recording your other records?
Wow (laughs), yea, it was very different. Usually you write songs, talk to your producer, do pre-production, bang it out, and everyone else is twisting knobs. No one ever gets 100 percent of what they expect from someone else. This time we were in complete control of that. There’s an obvious lost-in-translation sort of feeling when someone else touches your music. One thing that was an unknown was seeing how it would turn out. I engineered the whole thing myself. Definitely a learning curve (laughs). I’ve co-produced all of our music, I’ve definitely watched over everyone’s shoulders we’ve worked with in the past to learn from them. We did drums at Matt Malpass’ studio in North Carolina and then brought it to my house to do guitars, vocals, and bass. There were obvious shortfalls with isolation and acoustics, but we knew it’d be alright because we wanted it to sound live. We feel were the strongest onstage. It was great to experience, going from nothing to a finished product. The mixing part we had no experience, we went to a Vance Powell (Jack White, Secret Machines). We wanted to work with him so that anything I didn’t do right he’d rectify, (laughs), which he did. I went in there worried that he’d think “This guy’s a chump, he made this record in his basement,” but he was overwhelmingly complementary. We’re really stoked to have him in the fold. All in all we got exactly what we wanted to get.
You guys went from having an MTV reality show (2007’s Band in a Bubble) to completely steering your career independently. What has that transition been like?
It’s very different. When that was going on, that was the peak of label involvement. Not to discredit that, we had a lot of support. That was the catalyst into where we are now. We had a record we’re extremely proud of (the band’s 2005 breakout Chroma) and songs we love and they’re like “Well, people are growing weary of this. We don’t wanna push a second single.” It was crazy. They (Epic Records) basically said “We know everything’s going well, but we think we should do (the reality show) and have that be the next launch,” which was somewhat underhanded. They shut down Chroma. It could have gone a lot further. But if they were going gung-ho with it, we had to take their word. They didn’t threaten to drop us, but they said “if you don’t do it, we cant necessarily be supportive.” We put our ass on the line and wrote a bold record (2007’s Self-Titled release), and to have them go “well…” and never release a single made us go “Thanks for nothing, fuckheads!” That’s why we got off of Epic. That got us to Wind-Up. Even with them, it was great, but then administration started changing and moving in different directions. Just all this weird business stuff that should have nothing to do with music and it does. We decided we were gonna be much better off alone, especially with things like TuneCore, where all your missing is physical distribution. Especially today with IPods and everything else, most people aren’t going to stores and buying CDs, though our twitter replies would be evident of the contrary (laughs) The goal was to do something alone and release it our own. A statement of not needing someone to hold our hand. It was this whole domino affect that got us to this point. Even if the self -titled got bigger than Chroma, I think we would have gotten here. It’s an inevitably for bands; If you lose any steam at all, you get blamed because labels can just pull the plug. It’s a wild experience that hopefully bands coming up now can look at and see what to do and have something to build off of. We want to contribute to the overall music scene.
Is the plan to remain independent, or would you partner up with another label eventually?
We’ve always operated opportunistically. We’d love to partner up, distribution wise. It’s really hard to be out on the road and tour and make any money; we have bills and real life responsibilities. It’s more than just worrying about having gas in the van. I don’t think we can exist totally independently. Barenaked Ladies did it and sold a ton of records and its like “Are you serious?” But they can do that. I doubt well get back into an artist-on-a label deal since we don’t need that to sell a record to people. I can see Cartel in the future being involved in the distribution aspect.
Through all of this chaos, did the band ever come close to breaking up?
No. The closest we came was early this year. We were doing college shows in March, we were out in Anaheim, and we were talking about a Chroma tour. And that would be putting the nail in the coffin. We’d be going back to what got us here as a band. We have more songs to write and spread out to people. Were gonna do it on our own. We realized none of us wanted to see it go down yet. We love each other, were really good friends. I can say that my bandmates are my best friends. Its one of those things, like “can we still do it while trying to bring Cartel to a new phase?” and so far it’s worked out. I’d say the mission statement I put out there when we were releasing it is… It’s in the hands of the fans now. It’s hard as a band to function. Less people are going to shows, the bad economy… if we’re to exist, it’s completely by the hands of the fans. As long as they’re there, were gonna be right here making music.
What plans do you guys have for the next few months?
We start a short run of shows with Hot Rod Circuit soon. We play a headline gig in Indianapolis, come home for holidays, and write some songs. I’m going to produce a record for a band called With the Punches. It’s gonna be fun to not have to worry about creative side (laughs) and just try to make their record as good as possible. Looking forward to that. In March we head out on a national tour with a band we can’t reveal yet, we’ll let management tell you who that is (laughs).
You all are in your late 20s, how does growing older affect being in a band?
Most people we tour with are younger. We kind of just achieved this veteran status where the peers we have are New Found Glory, The Starting Line, and Saves the Day, who kinda paved the way right before us. There’s a gap between where we were and what’s popular now. It’s kinda weird seeing these kids with bright eyes like “This is awesome!” It’s like “dude, it will get old,” but you don’t want to ruin it for them. It can become monotonous. We’re looking for new experiences and fresh faces at shows and we want to reach new people. We had people tell us “you were my favorite band in 8th grade!” and it’s just like “We’re fucking old” (laughs). It’s cool because we’re seeing people who were 10 or 12 when we started who are getting into college. It’s also cool when people are like “I just heard you guys for the first time, you guys are awesome!” I guess there’s still life to a genre that might not seem like it’s on top of the world anymore. Its definitely cool to still be around, especially seeing bands we toured with not doing it anymore. If nothing else, we’re survivors.
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